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J1772 or NACS wall unit in 2026 — worth future-proofing now?

I'm moving and want to install a new home charger. With all the NACS news, is it smarter to go with a J1772 or NACS wall unit for 2026 and beyond? I drive a Ford, but I'm not sure if I should future-proof now or wait. Anyone else make this decision recently?
Filed under: Troubleshooting
2690 answers
90 ANSWERS
randomkiwi27
@randomkiwi27June 07, 2026
Did you find an actual published spec sheet for any NACS wall units—not just a press release? Most "future-proof" claims don’t specify supported amperage or firmware upgradability. I’d be interested if you’ve seen real numbers for either option.
ribbonash
↳@ribbonashJune 09, 2026
I went through this decision myself not long ago. I’d lean toward installing a J1772 unit now – it’s fully compatible with your Ford, and most NACS adapters are solidly supported (plus the official Ford NACS adapter is slated to roll out soon). The main reason: NACS wall units for residential use still have specs and interoperability details trickling out, and supply is inconsistent unless you’re in select markets. If you want to swap in a NACS unit later, it’s a straightforward replacement and installers are used to it. I wouldn’t stress about future-proofing right now; solid J1772 from a well-rated brand will serve you 5+ years easy, and you won’t be left behind as the switch happens. Panel readiness and install quality matter most! If you find a NACS wall unit from a real, established brand (not just a press release), share the source!
crookedpixel
↳@crookedpixelJune 10, 2026
Replace J1772 with NACS later is easy—same wiring, just swap the wall unit. Installer should be in/out in under an hour. Panel capacity and wiring matter more for future-proofing than plug type as of mid-2026. Don’t stress, Ford’s official adapter is coming anyway, so J1772 is safe now.
bluehazel_31
↳@bluehazel_31June 11, 2026
I installed a J1772 in NH and haven’t needed to swap yet—my Ford still uses it, and the official NACS adapters from Ford aren’t out. If you prep your wiring for higher amps now, swapping the unit later is just unplugging and screwing in the new one. That’s how I plan to handle changes.
bluehazel_31
↳@bluehazel_31June 16, 2026
Both J1772 and NACS can handle winters if you pick a unit with proper outdoor rating. Mine's done four winters outside with no failures—UL listing and cable thickness matter more than which shape of plug you get.
snowbolt_r
↳@snowbolt_rJune 12, 2026
I’d stick with J1772 for now. Own a Ford, used J1772 for five years in Maine—no issues, easy swap to NACS when adapters are official. Prep wiring for future higher amps, not just current car. Charger brands change, wiring stays. Weather and panel matter most, not just plug style.
silverpickle
↳@silverpickleJune 17, 2026
Does the car's actual charge port matter here, or is it purely about which wall unit you buy — like would a NACS wall unit even work with a Ford's J1772 port without some kind of adapter in between?
nimbus_rook
↳@nimbus_rookJune 14, 2026
In Minneapolis, stuck with J1772 through NACS chatter. Same outdoor charger on my detached garage since 2022—cold, snow, no trouble yet. Swapping the unit down the road looks easy if wiring and panel are solid. Anyone else riding out the switch, or did you swap already?
frostholm
↳@frostholmJune 15, 2026
J1772 is a safe bet for your Ford right now. I’ve swapped units in Michigan without any surprises—wiring and panel capacity are what actually need the forethought, not the plug. When you’re ready for NACS, it’s a 30-minute job if the wiring’s right. Don’t stress adapters either; official Ford ones are coming soon. Future-proof the wiring, not just the outlet.
orangepluto
↳@orangeplutoJune 16, 2026
Installed a J1772 wall unit in 2024 for a Mustang. No issues yet, and swap to NACS looks easy if wiring is sized right. I check for UL listing and weather seals, not just connector type.
gravelfox88
↳@gravelfox88June 16, 2026
UL listing is the right move. I’ve seen plenty of off-brand units skip certifications—and a weather seal that actually lines up with the cable makes a difference in Vermont snow. What brand did you go with?
driftbadge
↳@driftbadgeJune 16, 2026
My Enel X unit’s weather seal covers the plug, but the cable grommet’s a weak spot—needed extra heat shrink after ice storms. Haven’t seen a perfect Vermont-proof design yet. Which brands have you tried where the seal actually lines up?
sleetburn
↳@sleetburnJune 16, 2026
J1772 is the practical choice for Ford now—I've run the same through multiple winters with no issue. Panel capacity and good wiring matter more than plug type. NACS adapter will cover most future needs. Swapping wall units later is standard procedure. Go with well-rated equipment, prep your wiring, and don't stress future-proofing yet.
icewarden
↳@icewardenJune 16, 2026
Ford owner here. Installed J1772, ran it through winters, no problem. NACS adapter is coming, swap is fast if your wiring is sized right. Don't overthink it—focus on robust panel and weather-rated unit. Brand matters more than plug shape. You won't get left behind.
lampthread
↳@lampthreadJune 16, 2026
What if I pick a brand that stops making adapters? Am I just stuck at that point?
thornpath
↳@thornpathSeptember 03, 2026
Less of a risk than it would've been a couple years ago, because NACS isn't one company's proprietary thing anymore—it got standardized as SAE J3400 in late 2023, which means the connector spec is published and any manufacturer can build to it, not just whoever made your original adapter. That's different from something like a discontinued phone charger where only one company ever made the cable. If your specific adapter brand folds, there are already multiple other companies making J1772-to-NACS adapters to the same standard—you're not locked into one vendor's continued existence the way you would be with something proprietary.
misty_waffle
↳@misty_waffleJune 23, 2026
Upstate NY: Still using J1772 for a Mach-E. Five winters, no real issues. If wiring and weatherproofing are good, swapping to NACS later is no hassle.
staticpollen
↳@staticpollenJune 11, 2026
Ford marketing said 'NACS-ready' in their press material, but nowhere did they clarify if the first residential-compatible wall units will cover 48A or just 32A. For my last install, the spec page was missing input amperage details entirely—installers shrugged and said 'trust the brand.' If you find an official Ford-backed NACS wall unit with real specs and UL listing, drop a link; otherwise, the J1772 with the Ford adapter is the only path with fully published compatibility for now.
bluehazel_31
↳@bluehazel_31June 07, 2026
The one number I'd actually look for on the spec sheet is a minimum operating temperature for the cable, not just the enclosure's IP rating — mine only listed that in the fine print of the install manual, not on the marketing page. Worth digging through the actual PDF instead of the product listing.
sleetburn
↳@sleetburnJune 07, 2026
Haven’t found a full NACS wall unit spec sheet from any major supplier yet. None of my area electricians have either; they’re still recommending J1772 for Ford. Let me know if you spot real amp/firmware details—would help a lot for future decisions.
cloudspindle
↳@cloudspindleJune 07, 2026
Didn’t find a real NACS spec sheet myself, just glossy one-pagers with no numbers. The closest I got was a newsletter with some max-amp guesses, nothing official. Would be curious if Ford or anyone else has released more than headline promises yet.
foghorn_jt
@foghorn_jtJune 07, 2026
Everyone in Chicago seems to have different takes on this! In California, I see more NACS now. Is it normal up here to switch out wall units every few years, or do folks just stick with whatever was first installed?
fernclip
↳@fernclipJune 07, 2026
Does going NACS vs J1772 actually change anything about how the unit handles weather, or is that entirely down to the charger brand regardless of connector standard?
duskbutton
↳@duskbuttonJune 07, 2026
Left my "outdoor rated" charger out in sleet, and water still crept in through the cable gland. Turns out even with a rating, installation angle matters—mine pointed slightly uphill. Should've read the install manual instead of winging it.
driftbadge
↳@driftbadgeJune 07, 2026
Some “outdoor rated” units only meet the bare minimum waterproofing (like NEMA 3R), so horizontal rain, melting snow, or ice buildup can still seep in. Which model failed for you? That label covers a spectrum of protection, not all equal.
saltmarsh99
↳@saltmarsh99June 07, 2026
In my area, most folks stick with their first unit until they get a new car that really needs a change, or the unit breaks—swapping isn’t super common unless there’s a big tech shift. Have you seen more NACS installs actually being used in residential garages out west, or just new plugs waiting for future cars?
duskbutton
@duskbuttonJune 08, 2026
Got burned on this—put in a J1772 last year for my Mach-E and now everyone’s chirping about NACS. Installer wouldn’t even take a used unit back. If anyone’s made the switch, how painful was the swap?
duskbutton
↳@duskbuttonJune 18, 2026
Installed J1772 for my Ford last summer thinking I was clever—two months later, NACS news everywhere. Had a moment of panic, but so far no regrets. If anyone actually replaced their wall unit already, did it go as smooth as everyone claims?
hollowticket
@hollowticketJune 08, 2026
If I put in a J1772 now for my Ford, how hard is it to switch to NACS later if things change? In Austin I just call an installer and they sort it out, but traveling I've seen so many new plugs — nervous about picking the wrong one.
hollowticket
↳@hollowticketJune 17, 2026
so with all these comments, sounds like the right wiring and panel matter way more than my plug choice? in Austin nobody talked about this stuff—just got whatever charger fit. Up north, am I supposed to have my panel looked at every few years too?
lunarcrate
↳@lunarcrateJune 17, 2026
Are they supposed to inspect the whole panel regularly? I thought it was just a one-time thing at install. Totally lost on this part.
Marcus Chen
↳@Marcus ChenVerified ExpertJuly 15, 2026
Driftpine's right, but "every so often" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. There's no NEC-mandated periodic re-inspection cycle for an existing panel that hasn't been touched — code only kicks in at time of new work (new circuit, service upgrade, etc.), which is why nobody's telling you to schedule an annual visit. The standard guidance: adding a load like an EV charger is the trigger to have someone verify the panel's actual available capacity (not just what's printed on the label — labels lie after 20 years of romex getting added), check for double-tapped breakers, and confirm the main is sized for what's now on it. After that, the panel doesn't need a checkup unless another big load gets added, breakers start tripping that didn't used to, or the house is being bought/sold. It's event-driven, not calendar-driven.
driftpine
↳@driftpineJune 17, 2026
Every year or two is the usual rule of thumb, and definitely right after any panel upgrade — loose lugs from the install work are the most common thing an inspector catches, not something that develops on its own later.
lampthread
↳@lampthreadJune 08, 2026
Do you have to pay a lot more to swap it out, or does an installer just switch the box? I've only seen pictures online, haven't tried it myself.
cloudspindle
↳@cloudspindleJune 08, 2026
Installer just swapped the box for me when I moved mine. Wiring stayed put. I did have to patch some drywall because the mount was different, but no extra charge beyond the new unit and basic labor. Nothing fancy.
gravelfox88
↳@gravelfox88June 08, 2026
Yep, pretty much the same here—swapped out a J1772 for another unit before. All wiring stayed, just the charger body and hardware changed. Main headache is matching the mounting holes if they're different brands.
palecomet_d
@palecomet_dJune 10, 2026
I’m in a similar spot and did a lot of research before helping a neighbor install their charger. Right now, I’d still go J1772 for a Ford since you get full compatibility, and NACS adapters look set to roll out officially soon for most major brands (including Ford). Residential NACS wall units are still pretty new—solid details on weatherproofing and support are a bit hit or miss unless you’re in California. If you want to switch later, it’s not too tough for most setups, just confirm with an installer. Don’t stress—panel quality and cable run matter most. Good luck with the move!
marblepigeon
@marblepigeonJune 10, 2026
Just did my first winter with a J1772 in Vermont—no issues, even in February. Curious if anyone had trouble cold-switching wall units after a few seasons? Also, how fast are NACS adapters arriving in other states? Thanks and good luck with your setup!
northpickle
↳@northpickleJune 16, 2026
Both plug types endure winters if you pick a unit with a real UL listing and solid outdoor rating. The shape—J1772 or NACS—hasn't mattered as much as the quality of weather seals and the install. All my issues came from water, never from plug design.
fernclip
↳@fernclipJune 23, 2026
For anyone in a real snow climate who's already switched to NACS — has connector icing been any better or worse than what people report with J1772, or is it basically the same problem either way?
brickmoss_7
↳@brickmoss_7June 25, 2026
Does going from J1772 to NACS later actually need new wiring run, or just swapping the charger head/unit itself?
mossdrift
↳@mossdriftJune 25, 2026
does the panel need to be upsized either way, or is that only a factor if you're going for faster charging speeds regardless of connector type
winterclamp
↳@winterclampJuly 02, 2026
Label claims don't guarantee outdoor durability. My J1772 lasted five winters only because I checked for moisture after storms and used a simple cover—even "outdoor-rated" units can fail from water ingress. Focus on regular inspections and covers, not just the specs on the box. Haven't seen a plug shape outlast another yet.
greylantern_k
↳@greylantern_kJune 10, 2026
I’m more used to Georgia heat than Vermont chill, but no issues with my J1772 after three sweaty summers outdoors—just some dust! Did you notice any difference in charging speed on really cold mornings?
misty_waffle
↳@misty_waffleJune 10, 2026
J1772 slows down a bit on cold mornings—5-10% longer on average to full charge below 10°F for me. Ford battery seems to be the limiting factor, not the plug.
saltmarsh99
↳@saltmarsh99June 10, 2026
Yeah, I noticed charging does start a bit slower on the coldest mornings but not a huge difference in total charge time—maybe 10 minutes more to top off when it’s below zero. Have you tried pre-conditioning your battery before plugging in? That helps speed things up in my case.
winterclamp
↳@winterclampJune 10, 2026
If you haven’t, check for firmware updates on your charger—some units throttle amperage when it’s below zero and can charge a bit slower until things warm up. My JuiceBox does a soft start at -10°F but never fails outright. What model are you using?
paperiguana
↳@paperiguanaJune 10, 2026
So, with the Vermont cold—did you ever notice the cable just getting stiff and weird to coil in winter? my cord is always floppy and easy. wondering if i’m just spoiled on warm garages.
graycoil
@graycoilJune 10, 2026
Habit: When choosing a charger, prep your panel and wiring for the highest amps you’ll ever need—even if you start with J1772. Makes future swaps easy and cuts electrician costs later. Avoids headaches if you upgrade cars or plugs. Future-proofing is about wiring, not just the port.
driftbadge
@driftbadgeJune 11, 2026
Are you planning a plug-in install or hardwired? And what’s your home panel’s available amperage? That makes a bigger difference for long-term flexibility than the port itself right now.
quietwalrus
↳@quietwalrusJune 12, 2026
Plug-in or hardwired install? And panel amperage? If you want it code compliant for easy swapping later, use dedicated circuit, size wire for max future load, GFCI if outside (NEC 210.8), and weatherproof inlet if plug-in (406.9). Adapter for NACS is fine but installation details matter more than port style right now.
thistleknot
@thistleknotJune 12, 2026
Once NACS wall units are more common, will J1772 cars need their own adapter to use them, or are chargers expected to just ship with both plugs for a while?
picklewindow
↳@picklewindowJune 12, 2026
Missing a night of charging won’t hurt your battery at all. Batteries are fine sitting at partial charge, and your app showing different range is just normal fluctuation—not a sign of damage or anything like that.
grainbell
↳@grainbellJune 12, 2026
same here — anyone know if using a non-OEM adapter long-term causes warranty headaches?
mossgable
↳@mossgableSeptember 02, 2026
Depends what breaks and who you're asking to cover it. The wall unit's own warranty generally isn't affected by what adapter you plug into your car's port on the other end—that's downstream of the charger's own connector, and most manufacturers don't even know what adapter you're using. Where it gets murkier is the vehicle side: if a non-OEM adapter causes a charging fault or connector damage on the car's charge port, the automaker can push back on covering that repair under warranty if they can show the adapter caused it, especially if it's not on their approved-accessories list. Keep the receipt and check whether your automaker publishes an approved adapter list before relying on a random one for daily use.
orangepluto
↳@orangeplutoJune 12, 2026
Skipping one night of charging won’t damage your battery. Daily range estimates can change with temperature, recent driving, or software updates—pretty normal, especially in New England swings.
patchgravel
@patchgravelJune 14, 2026
I'm not sure if J1772 and NACS are like 'Level 1' and 'Level 2' toughness ratings? If I get a J1772 now, does that mean it's light-duty and NACS is the 'heavy-duty' one for the future? Or do both hold up the same, just with a different connector shape? I keep thinking future-proof means it'll last through tougher charging days, but not sure if that's how it works with these. Anyone compare durability or is it really just about plug style?
maplecroft
↳@maplecroftJune 14, 2026
Does going NACS now actually lock you out of J1772 public chargers, or is it just an adapter away?
hutchrides
↳@hutchridesSeptember 02, 2026
Just an adapter away, and a cheap one at that. I'm on NACS natively and carry a J1772-to-NACS adapter in the frunk—same one you'd use going the other direction, just flipped which side has the car-facing connector. Public J1772 stations aren't going anywhere for years; there's way too much existing L2 infrastructure at hotels, workplaces, and city chargers for it to disappear just because new cars ship with NACS ports. The bigger practical question for road trips is DC fast charging, not L2—that's where CCS-to-NACS adapters get pickier about which stations actually work with them. For overnight L2 charging specifically, don't overthink it.
pixelmango19
↳@pixelmango19June 14, 2026
J1772 versus NACS isn’t a toughness or reliability difference—it’s just a connector form factor. I’ve tested both: physical wear rate, contact resistance, and environmental seal performance vary more by manufacturer than by standard. For longevity, look at UL listing, spring pressure at the contacts, and the weather seal design. Otherwise, future-proofing is just about which cable fits your next car, not which plug is stronger.
patchgravel
↳@patchgravelJune 15, 2026
Thanks for clarifying! So if J1772 vs NACS is more like two different shapes instead of a toughness or "level" thing, would that mean either one can handle daily use and bad weather if I buy from a good brand? Does anyone list, like, a "durability rating" or something if you want to know which plug lasts longer outside? I keep getting tripped up thinking one is more "heavy duty" than the other just because it seems newer.
gravelfox88
↳@gravelfox88June 15, 2026
J1772 vs NACS isn’t a durability thing. Done outdoor J1772 and NACS installs—both hold up if you buy from a reputable brand. Key is enclosure rating and weather seals, not which plug type. No “heavy duty” winner, just pick for your car and check the specs for actual ratings.
frostbyte_742
↳@frostbyte_742June 17, 2026
No durability score for J1772 vs NACS—if you're buying from a reputable brand, both handle daily use and harsh weather. Key is UL listing, good weather seals, and solid cable strain relief. I’ve seen failures only from bargain units or poor installs, not from connector shape. Worry about wiring, not 'plug toughness.'
icewarden
↳@icewardenJune 17, 2026
No durability rating for J1772 vs NACS—just different shapes. In Minnesota, my EVSE is outside and hasn’t failed; pick a reputable brand with UL listing and solid seals. Ignore hype about toughness. It’s the install, weatherproofing, and wiring that matter for longevity.
staticpollen
↳@staticpollenJune 17, 2026
The 'ignore hype about toughness' line—I'd push back a bit there. I had a first-gen NACS knockoff (marketed as 'Tesla-style') and the boot seal disintegrated after one winter. The spec sheet listed 'weatherproof,' but there was no IP rating and no UL listing. Plug shape alone isn’t a guarantee, but the hype skips over those specifics. If the spec page doesn’t give an enclosure or ingress rating, I’d call that a red flag regardless of plug type.
cedarloop
↳@cedarloopJune 17, 2026
The only real durability difference between J1772 and NACS comes down to the manufacturer's material choice and seal design. No EV plug is "heavier duty" by shape alone; either one can handle years of cold winters if it's UL listed and has proper weather protection. I still use a J1772 and haven't seen a failure from plug wear—just from cheap units with thin enclosures.
snowbolt_r
↳@snowbolt_rJune 16, 2026
It's not about toughness—J1772 and NACS are two shapes, both work fine outside if you pick a good brand with UL listing and weather seals. My J1772 lasted five winters, no failures. Focus on proper wiring and install, not port style. Either plug will outlast your car if installed right.
lunarcrate
↳@lunarcrateJune 17, 2026
Since it's just shape and not durability — does either connector's housing actually have a better seal/IP rating against water, or is it the same guts under a different shell either way?
cloudspindle
↳@cloudspindleJune 16, 2026
My Ford connector went through three winters in the backyard. First year, I left it where the sprinklers hit—connector got soaked most mornings. After that, I kept it up high and dry, no issues since. It really does come down to how you treat it, not the plug shape.
maplebutton
↳@maplebuttonJune 16, 2026
Ford is still using J1772 for now, but NACS adapters are becoming more common.
copperfog
↳@copperfogJune 17, 2026
Durability’s more about brand and sealing than plug shape. My J1772 lasted outdoors just fine—picked one with a sturdy weather cap and UL mark. As long as wiring and panel are done right, either plug holds up. Just check for rust after big storms.
northpickle
↳@northpickleJune 14, 2026
They're both tough enough—it's not like one melts in a rainstorm while the other's armored. The real difference is just the plug shape. Wall units are all built to survive a winter if you pick one rated for outdoors.
slatepost
@slatepostJune 16, 2026
does switching from J1772 to NACS ever need rewiring or is it really just swapping the wall unit itself
driftbadge
↳@driftbadgeJune 16, 2026
Have you checked if your Ford’s onboard charger is compatible with any of the announced NACS adapters, or are you hoping to swap the wall unit itself if standards change?
ridgeleaf
↳@ridgeleafJune 16, 2026
I checked with my Ford dealer and they said the official NACS adapter for my Mach-E should be available late this year, but didn’t mention if there’d be any extra compatibility hoops for home charging. Have you heard anything about whether future Ford models will switch ports entirely, or just ship with adapters for a while?
Nathan Park
↳@Nathan ParkVerified ExpertJuly 15, 2026
Ford's already committed to NACS as the native port starting with their next-gen platform — adapters are the bridge strategy for the existing J1772 fleet, not the long-term plan. Rivian, GM, Honda, Nissan, and Volvo have all signed the same MOU and are doing the same thing: adapter now, native NACS port on future model years. For home charging specifically, the "compatibility hoops" people worry about are mostly a non-issue — the CCS1-to-NACS and J1772-to-NACS adapters Ford's shipping are dumb mechanical adapters, no signal translation needed, because NACS and J1772 use the same SAE J1772 communication protocol underneath, just a different connector shape. Where it actually gets more complicated is DC fast charging adapters, not L2 home charging. So for your Mach-E: J1772 wall unit now is fine, the adapter will work at home exactly like it does anywhere else, and you're not locking yourself out of anything by not waiting.
ridgeleaf
↳@ridgeleafJuly 15, 2026
That's really helpful, thanks. Good to know it's just a mechanical adapter and not some firmware compatibility thing I'd have to worry about.
maplebutton
↳@maplebuttonJune 16, 2026
The "simpler" part for me was mostly cost — NACS units were still running $150-200 more when I bought mine since fewer places stocked them. If that gap's closed where you are, might be worth just going NACS instead of adapting later.
snowbolt_r
↳@snowbolt_rJune 16, 2026
Did you notice any day-to-day difference using J1772 over what you’d expect from NACS? Maine’s been fine with J1772 for me, but curious if Ford software ever threw errors from adapters or connectors.
marblepigeon
↳@marblepigeonJune 16, 2026
I went J1772 too, mostly because Ford still ships with it and Vermont’s public chargers are all J1772 so far. Did you get any funny looks at install?
grainbell
@grainbellJune 16, 2026
this thread helped — does going NACS now lock you out of J1772-only stations later or do most places just keep an adapter around?
oakmoss_r
↳@oakmoss_rJune 21, 2026
does switching later mean redoing the wiring too or just swapping the wall unit itself?
lampthread
@lampthreadJune 18, 2026
Is anyone in Ohio actually using a NACS wall unit yet, or is everyone just waiting for adapters? Still feels risky to swap mine.
misty_waffle
↳@misty_waffleJune 18, 2026
NACS wall units don’t seem to be common up here yet either. Nobody local I know has one—dealers still push J1772, just with those new adapters. Watching to see when the first real NACS setups show up.
bluehazel_31
↳@bluehazel_31June 18, 2026
No one in my local group in NH has put in a NACS-only wall unit yet. Everyone I know is still using J1772 with the Ford adapter plan—no one’s mentioned regret waiting. Unless you hear major changes, waiting doesn’t seem risky to me.
tealcork
@tealcorkJune 21, 2026
Is it actually a hassle to switch connector types later if you guess wrong now, or is it just a cheap adapter either way?
tealcork
↳@tealcorkJune 21, 2026
Is the price difference between the two wall units actually significant, or is it mostly the same hardware badged differently?
randomkiwi27
↳@randomkiwi27June 21, 2026
Did your husband end up choosing one, or is he still waiting for more NACS options to hit the market?
pintleaf
@pintleafJune 08, 2026
Same issue in Minnesota—local shops still recommend J1772 first.
slatepost
@slatepostJune 15, 2026
is there an actual price difference between a NACS unit and a J1772 one right now or are they about the same